I should like to recommend an article from Politico.eu, called "The Failed World Order", David M. Herszenhorn. It makes the point that many of us, including EL, have been getting at: the toothlessness of the UN, Council of Europe, EU, et al. It also farther down makes another point at the heart of this matter, which is that the West wants Ukraine to stop Putin for it, and believes that the bodies of Ukraine's children is an acceptable sacrifice made on the West's behalf.
It is a very truthful article, very clearly written.
Russia has broken every internationally agreed upon covenant in the book. And, yet, remains on the Security Council.
This point, for me, is the paradigm of what we are looking at on our screens every night. TC
Rather than scrolling down putting LIKES on all the comments I agree with, which cover the ground so completely, I will just say here that I agree wholeheartedly with the thoughts expressed below. The PM may be an idiot in domestic governance, but he's more in his element in broad international concepts. He said from the beginning that Putin cannot be allowed to succeed here.
What seems to be happening is that the West, still stuck like flies in amber in the mistakes of the past, has its fingers crossed behind its back hoping that time, fading outrage, and exhaustion on the part of Ukraine will do the trick, end the suspense, give up something - anything - to Putin, and then pretend to itself that it did everything it could. When, in fact, the West only did everything it would do without taking any risks itself.
Then, having proved to future generations that Might, indeed makes Right, we will get editorials and commentary from the chattering classes and the Fourth Estate about the dimming of democracy across the globe.
We never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The West rushed into the Gulf War to stop Saddam in Kuwait, and in the process betrayed the Kurds and allowed Saddam's aerial gunboats to massacre the fleeing Kurds on the ground.
But it let Russia have Assad and Syria. It went into Bosnia too late, did nothing in Rwanda and Darfur, is ignoring the catastrophe in Yemen as the Saudis and Iran fight a vicious proxy war using Yemenis as cannon fodder. The moron in the White House in 2002 went into Iraq instead of pursuing Al Qaeda into Afghanistan immediately, killing hundreds of thousands and pushing Iraq into Iran's arms, a folly that made Vietnam look benign by comparison.
Johnson was right: the West has made too many mistakes, gone into places it shouldn't have and stayed out of places it should have gone into.
We have no more valid excuses, and won't admit the true reason: we want the name without the game - the moral high ground without taking any risks.
There is no moral high ground without risk. If Putin succeeds even in getting the Donbas region, he will have again proved that what you aren't willing to fight for, you eventually lose.
The West may try to wiggle out of this after the smoke clears, but this time it won't be able to.
When Hitler first proposed his Final Solution re European Jewry, a couple of his advisors warned that the rest of the world might find that a bit over a certain line. Hitler replied, "Nonsense. Who today remembers the Armenians?"
The rest, as they say, is history. And here we are again. We're making a nice show of it on the surface, but Putin has already gotten far more than he should have if morality is any measure. Even if Putin fails to take the whole country, he will still come out with more than he came in with.
And that is unforgivable, in my view. And that's my rant for today. TC
You are correct in that the West has acted without any risks. In order to truly help and save the world from Putin attacks, one must take risks with an objective to succeed. By failing to act, the risk they take is to allow Putin to continue and endanger democracy as we know it.
This is a rough transcript of journalist, Ali Velshi's response to Joe Biden's quip referring to Putin: 'The guy's got to go.' 28 th March, 2022, War in Ukraine: 'SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR DEMOCRACY', MSNBC. Velshi calls Putin, 'an imperialistic despot' and argues that 'the Ukraine can stand upto the Imperialist Expansionist Russia with the world's help, with America's help.' Velshi says that according to a report by the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance- democratic backsliding is the norm all over the world today. He lists 5 core measures that he claims Ukraine upholds. These are: Freedom of expression; Freedom of association and assembly; Judicial Independence; Effective Parliament; and, Media Integrity. Velshi contends that 'he (Joe Biden) knows that if Ukraine falls, so falls the democratic world's best hope of fighting the global tide of authoritarianism and dictatorship.' He further asserts that, 'this war in Ukraine was unprovoked and is illegal.' Finally states: 'The Ukranians have held the line longer than anyone expected them to. Their leaders have rallied the world and their people. They're calling themselves the frontline of democracy in the world...'
"Zelenskyy has stated in an interview that he would consider a neutrality deal to gain a ceasefire, but it would have to be guaranteed by third parties and a referendum would have to be held." I can't help but think this may be a delaying tactic on Zelenskyy's part, taking a lesson from Putin's playbook.....
I've been quiet, but here I am posting so soon- ironic, but fearful pressure will be put on the Ukranians to ceasefire when they are determined, courageous and fighting on their ground for their country's freedom; especially in light of the fact that in 'Putin's mindset he can't retreat. I know that there's a lot of spin, but what is the state of Russian morale? Is it true that 'the Russian military command lost control of its army? Described as an eminent military leader, General McCaffrey speaks highly of the Ukraine army and recommends they be given M1 Abram tanks. A response in the social comments stated that the Ukraines have never used them and instead supply them them with gear they already know how to use because they don't have the time to learn completely foreign complex systems.
EL, I've avoided commenting because I am well aware of my ignorance, but started listening and watching what could be considered 'propaganda', nonetheless there are perspectives that strongly support the Ukranians and consider Zerlensky a modern day Churchill. The Ukranians it appears hate the Russians and are prepared to die to defy Putin and keep Ukraine free. There is mention of the effect on world order if Russia succeeds in achieving a ceasefire or is victorious- if World War is avoided and Ukraine neutralised can we be assured that aggression from Russia will end?
Geo, I too feel I cannot add to the very knowledgeable comments made on this unlawful invasion of Ukraine.
I'm in total disbelief watching the horrors unfold.
Here in the UK we have slow motion tactics that are not helping the refugees who desparately need safety and compassion. We appear to have a very warped meaning to our 'Help Ukraine' campaign - Red Tape.......
As long as Putin is alive, and still in power, I don't believe he will be deterred. He got away with it when he reclaimed the Crimea peninsula and will continue with his Soviet Union agenda until stopped. The KGB agent is responsible for all Ukrainian deaths and destruction as well as the considerable number of Russian casualties.
Many knew he was a threat but the West gave him the benefit of the doubt to prove he was willing to cooperate with the West and opened doors for him. Those doors are now being closed, and the West have to accept they made a mistake for letting a wolf in sheep's clothing into their 'home'. Now they are being too polite about getting them out of the house, and rather than kick them out they are asking nicely for them to leave with diplomatic talks and 'bribes' (negotiations) and to stop causing further harm. Causing destruction is a sign of power for a dictator, and the West must accept that Putin doesn't care about the lost lives as they do.
I should like to recommend an article from Politico.eu, called "The Failed World Order", David M. Herszenhorn. It makes the point that many of us, including EL, have been getting at: the toothlessness of the UN, Council of Europe, EU, et al. It also farther down makes another point at the heart of this matter, which is that the West wants Ukraine to stop Putin for it, and believes that the bodies of Ukraine's children is an acceptable sacrifice made on the West's behalf.
It is a very truthful article, very clearly written.
Russia has broken every internationally agreed upon covenant in the book. And, yet, remains on the Security Council.
This point, for me, is the paradigm of what we are looking at on our screens every night. TC
Thanks @TC! I appreciate your reading recommendations very much... have learned from them as well as @EL's brilliant summations and bullet points.
Rather than scrolling down putting LIKES on all the comments I agree with, which cover the ground so completely, I will just say here that I agree wholeheartedly with the thoughts expressed below. The PM may be an idiot in domestic governance, but he's more in his element in broad international concepts. He said from the beginning that Putin cannot be allowed to succeed here.
What seems to be happening is that the West, still stuck like flies in amber in the mistakes of the past, has its fingers crossed behind its back hoping that time, fading outrage, and exhaustion on the part of Ukraine will do the trick, end the suspense, give up something - anything - to Putin, and then pretend to itself that it did everything it could. When, in fact, the West only did everything it would do without taking any risks itself.
Then, having proved to future generations that Might, indeed makes Right, we will get editorials and commentary from the chattering classes and the Fourth Estate about the dimming of democracy across the globe.
We never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The West rushed into the Gulf War to stop Saddam in Kuwait, and in the process betrayed the Kurds and allowed Saddam's aerial gunboats to massacre the fleeing Kurds on the ground.
But it let Russia have Assad and Syria. It went into Bosnia too late, did nothing in Rwanda and Darfur, is ignoring the catastrophe in Yemen as the Saudis and Iran fight a vicious proxy war using Yemenis as cannon fodder. The moron in the White House in 2002 went into Iraq instead of pursuing Al Qaeda into Afghanistan immediately, killing hundreds of thousands and pushing Iraq into Iran's arms, a folly that made Vietnam look benign by comparison.
Johnson was right: the West has made too many mistakes, gone into places it shouldn't have and stayed out of places it should have gone into.
We have no more valid excuses, and won't admit the true reason: we want the name without the game - the moral high ground without taking any risks.
There is no moral high ground without risk. If Putin succeeds even in getting the Donbas region, he will have again proved that what you aren't willing to fight for, you eventually lose.
The West may try to wiggle out of this after the smoke clears, but this time it won't be able to.
When Hitler first proposed his Final Solution re European Jewry, a couple of his advisors warned that the rest of the world might find that a bit over a certain line. Hitler replied, "Nonsense. Who today remembers the Armenians?"
The rest, as they say, is history. And here we are again. We're making a nice show of it on the surface, but Putin has already gotten far more than he should have if morality is any measure. Even if Putin fails to take the whole country, he will still come out with more than he came in with.
And that is unforgivable, in my view. And that's my rant for today. TC
You are correct in that the West has acted without any risks. In order to truly help and save the world from Putin attacks, one must take risks with an objective to succeed. By failing to act, the risk they take is to allow Putin to continue and endanger democracy as we know it.
Yes, you are so right, unforgivable!!
Much 'Like' TC.....
This is a rough transcript of journalist, Ali Velshi's response to Joe Biden's quip referring to Putin: 'The guy's got to go.' 28 th March, 2022, War in Ukraine: 'SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR DEMOCRACY', MSNBC. Velshi calls Putin, 'an imperialistic despot' and argues that 'the Ukraine can stand upto the Imperialist Expansionist Russia with the world's help, with America's help.' Velshi says that according to a report by the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance- democratic backsliding is the norm all over the world today. He lists 5 core measures that he claims Ukraine upholds. These are: Freedom of expression; Freedom of association and assembly; Judicial Independence; Effective Parliament; and, Media Integrity. Velshi contends that 'he (Joe Biden) knows that if Ukraine falls, so falls the democratic world's best hope of fighting the global tide of authoritarianism and dictatorship.' He further asserts that, 'this war in Ukraine was unprovoked and is illegal.' Finally states: 'The Ukranians have held the line longer than anyone expected them to. Their leaders have rallied the world and their people. They're calling themselves the frontline of democracy in the world...'
"Zelenskyy has stated in an interview that he would consider a neutrality deal to gain a ceasefire, but it would have to be guaranteed by third parties and a referendum would have to be held." I can't help but think this may be a delaying tactic on Zelenskyy's part, taking a lesson from Putin's playbook.....
I've been quiet, but here I am posting so soon- ironic, but fearful pressure will be put on the Ukranians to ceasefire when they are determined, courageous and fighting on their ground for their country's freedom; especially in light of the fact that in 'Putin's mindset he can't retreat. I know that there's a lot of spin, but what is the state of Russian morale? Is it true that 'the Russian military command lost control of its army? Described as an eminent military leader, General McCaffrey speaks highly of the Ukraine army and recommends they be given M1 Abram tanks. A response in the social comments stated that the Ukraines have never used them and instead supply them them with gear they already know how to use because they don't have the time to learn completely foreign complex systems.
EL, I've avoided commenting because I am well aware of my ignorance, but started listening and watching what could be considered 'propaganda', nonetheless there are perspectives that strongly support the Ukranians and consider Zerlensky a modern day Churchill. The Ukranians it appears hate the Russians and are prepared to die to defy Putin and keep Ukraine free. There is mention of the effect on world order if Russia succeeds in achieving a ceasefire or is victorious- if World War is avoided and Ukraine neutralised can we be assured that aggression from Russia will end?
Geo, I too feel I cannot add to the very knowledgeable comments made on this unlawful invasion of Ukraine.
I'm in total disbelief watching the horrors unfold.
Here in the UK we have slow motion tactics that are not helping the refugees who desparately need safety and compassion. We appear to have a very warped meaning to our 'Help Ukraine' campaign - Red Tape.......
As long as Putin is alive, and still in power, I don't believe he will be deterred. He got away with it when he reclaimed the Crimea peninsula and will continue with his Soviet Union agenda until stopped. The KGB agent is responsible for all Ukrainian deaths and destruction as well as the considerable number of Russian casualties.
Many knew he was a threat but the West gave him the benefit of the doubt to prove he was willing to cooperate with the West and opened doors for him. Those doors are now being closed, and the West have to accept they made a mistake for letting a wolf in sheep's clothing into their 'home'. Now they are being too polite about getting them out of the house, and rather than kick them out they are asking nicely for them to leave with diplomatic talks and 'bribes' (negotiations) and to stop causing further harm. Causing destruction is a sign of power for a dictator, and the West must accept that Putin doesn't care about the lost lives as they do.